Over the last five years ICOM UK has run a series of interviews exploring museums across the globe. This autumn Catherine McDermott (ICOM UK Secretary) and Claire Messenger (ICOM UK Committee Member) have been talking to museum and heritage colleagues about the challenges they have faced in the sector in the past six months. In this interview Claire talks to Fadhili Maghiya, Director of the Sub-Sahara Advisory Panel (SSAP) and Billy Mazoya, a marketing student who spent a year working as a communications officer at SSAP for industry experience, about their work with Amgueddfa Cymru – National Museum Wales.
Hello Fadhili, hello Billy. Thank you for speaking to ICOM UK members. Perhaps you could start by telling us about the Sub-Sahara Advisory Panel (SSAP)? What do you do and why?
Fadhili: The Sub-Sahara Advisory Panel was formed in 2009 by a number of African diaspora groups in Wales to consider how they might collectively advance their shared interest in local and international development. We are not an organisation representing African Diaspora communities in Wales but one that seeks to utilise skills, capacity and knowledge found within Welsh African diaspora communities for the benefit of all. We want to bring our lived experiences and provide a reality check to the charity sector and advocate for the diaspora for development. We do this by implementing development initiatives in Wales and across Sub-Saharan Africa.
Billy: My role is to communicate this message using newsletters, posters, podcasts, social media – anything regarding communication. I do this because much of what SSAP does is what I’d like to eventually do for organisations in Congo, my birthplace. My role allows me to apply the academic knowledge I have learnt from my course with industry experience to make me more employable.
What has been the response to #BlackLivesMatter movement in Wales and in the cultural sector? How and why did this response start?
Fadhili: The response of #BLM in Wales was heard across the country and many people, young and old, took part. Young people of colour took the lead in organising protests from bigger towns and cities such as Cardiff, Newport and Swansea to smaller towns such as Caernarfon and Cwmbran etc. There were many Zoom meetings alongside the protests and these led to the formation of Black Lives Matter Wales (BLMW). The purpose of BLMW has been to keep the momentum and engagement with the public, policy makers and other stakeholders and bring together those various protests across Wales.
The setup of BLMW was followed by a meeting organised by Jane Hutt, Deputy Minister and Chief Whip in the Welsh Government. BLMW and other groups who chose to not join BLMW were represented and they each addressed areas that they and their members believe should be addressed by the Welsh Government. These ranged from police powers to education and addressing other inequalities in Wales. The #BLMW developed a Manifesto that was presented to Jane Hutt and we are waiting to hear back. The National Museum Wales and Arts Council Wales have recently commissioned groups of creatives/researchers to develop conversations with diverse communities on how they can better engage.
Billy: The response in Wales towards the #BlackLivesMatter movement was part of a domino effect of responses which started from the death of George Floyd. Racism is a global problem, and this movement allowed hidden voices to be heard. We hear and read about the long history of racial marches and protests in America, often wanting to partake. The domino effect allowed people not only to support the message that black lives actually do matter but also to be a part of history because these marches took place during a pandemic and happened in multiple countries. This was a movement, not a moment. The domino effect may no longer be on the streets, but the movement has moved to the offices of local governments, schools, workplaces and into our homes via Diversity’s BGT performance.
Can you tell us more about the project What to do about Picton? How did it start and why? Could you give ICOM UK members some examples of your approach to this project?
Fadhili: The project started during lockdown, during the early days of #BLM. Prior to this SSAP Youth and the Museum had worked together under the ‘Kick The Dust’ project to develop 3 webinars exploring objects in the Museum that have connections to Africa. The project started in May and we had one session every 2-3 weeks and it was just after the last session of the project that #BLM gained momentum and questions about ‘What To Do About Picton’? were raised. During this time conversation about statutes, portraits, road signs etc of well-known slave traders and key players during the slave trade were gaining momentum with Cardiff Council leading the way in removing Picton’s statute from the Council’s building.
Working with staff at National Museum Wales, we had an initial meeting with SSAP Youth on who Picton was and why he is a controversial figure. SSAP Youth were then invited to write a blog as well as doing a #Twittertakeover on educating the public as to who Picton was, especially his relation to Louisa Calderon, a young woman he abused. The conversations led to another wider curatorial workshop that engaged the general public, mostly people of colour from across Wales. The session took part on the same day that Cardiff Council was voting on the motion to remove Picton’s statute. As Councillors were voting, our participants also took a vote on what we should do about Picton’s portrait in the Museum. The results are below.
Following this, SSAP Youth were then tasked to lead on how we can reframe Picton and create ‘a multidimensional display between then and now’. We are currently working on this and our initial proposal has been approved by the Museum.
Billy: Firstly, the project WTDAP is something that should have been done a long time ago. The discussions which lead to the project, began after the #BLM marches and the toppling of Edward Colston’s statue in Bristol. The project itself highlights the need for exploring multiple narratives. History is often written by those who are literate. However, this project teaches us about the other side of Thomas Picton. Many in Wales know him as a highly decorated war hero but very few know what he was fighting for and who he fought against. Louisa Calderon is a name which many people had never heard about up until this project, but I trust that more people will be made aware of her story after.
How do you hope this project will support the youth-groups and wider community involved in the collaboration?
Fadhili: The project has already achieved a lot in engaging young people on important conversations in relation to black history in Wales, diversity and inclusion, curating and programming and developing communication skills through the podcasts we have organised.
The project has had a wider impact not just within the groups but the general public. This is exemplified by the reaction to the Museum’s twitter account following the announcement that SSAP Youth are reframing Picton and the campaign that young people have been working on. We have since been interviewed by ITV Wales, our letter to Cardiff Council has been publicised on media outlets including WalesOnline and the blog on the Museum’s website has attracted a record number of people. The impact has been beyond expectations as exemplified by the Welsh Government’s commitment to look at Wales’s historical legacy on the slave trade by assessing the current school’s curriculum and historical monuments.
Billy: I think that this project will give young people the knowledge to understand that history is within their grasp and they have the power to re-tell history. The youth of today are the storytellers of the future. When we have been brought up with one way of thinking we often find it difficult to accept different perspectives which challenge the status quo but it is important that the challenges happen from a young age.
What do you both hope that audiences take away from their experience of this project? What do you hope to achieve?
We want people in Wales and beyond to understand the deep impact of the slave trade and colonialism in the world we live in today. Current issues of representation, diversity and inclusion of black communities cannot be discussed in silos without looking at these historical significances.
We want to reframe the narrative in the cultural sector,
We want to educate and inform the general public of these historical facts,
We want policy makers to be aware of the responsibilities they have in ensuring that we have an equitable society,
We want the audience to go away with some new knowledge which leaves them feeling challenged and motivated to do their own research on historical events.
And we want the black community in Wales to be aware of their history and that black history is Welsh history.
What has been your experience of working with Amgueddfa Cymru – National Museum Wales? What have been the benefits of this collaboration?
Fadhili: It has been great working with Amguedda Cymru, especially those from the ‘Kick The Dust’ project. The relationship has grown organically having started off with small projects 2-3 years ago and is now formalising as one of the key partners. Through this partnership, we have developed our capacity to support young people in the community and engage them in issues that interest them. We have also been able to explore future collaborations that will allow us to work in longer-sustainable projects.
Billy: I loved it – met some great people and I learnt a lot. I would love to see more of these collaborations with schools and local youth centres and charities.
What do you see as the future for SSAP and its work in the cultural sector?
Fadhili: The future of SSAP and its work in the cultural sector has just started. This is just the beginning of hopefully many more bits of work to do in decolonising the cultural sector and amplifying marginalised voices in our communities.
Billy: I see SSAP as a major global funder of international development in Sub-Saharan Africa and a union organisation that ensures worker’s rights for employees of African heritage and diaspora groups in Wales. I also see SSAP having its hand in multiple ventures; film making, podcasts, food and clothing distribution; outsourced from Wales and distributed to Africa.
Thank you so much Fadhili and Billy for talking to ICOM UK. It has been fascinating and enlightening to learn more about SSAP and the work you are doing in the cultural sector and how that has impacted in the wider community.
If you would like to know more about SSAP or the projects discussed with Fadhili and Billy, you can contact them at Fadhili.Maghiya@ssap.org.uk and bmazoya@hotmail.co.uk – they would be happy to hear from you.
And please see more using the links below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSbuuy4wjZY&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1vODQ0XBc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACySI__DgUQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CebZjyLQVw
